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2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

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2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

PostPosted by derelectrk » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:19 pm

I've had a 230BR for a year now and have noticed some give in the hull while running in rough seas. At first I notice a knocking noise when going through waves (2 ft plus) and thought it was the hatches making the noise. We put temporary foam wedges in the hatch covers and it sill made noise. I can push on the sides of the hull about even with the front of the console and there is some deflecting in the fiberglass. I went to my dealer for an unrelated issue and I went look at a new 2017 230BR and the hull in that area is solid. Was there manufacturing changes in these hulls between 2016 and 17? Or has anyone experienced the same trouble?
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Re: 2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

PostPosted by Cameron » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:43 am

Our 2016 230 was solid. It never once creaked or groaned even in the roughest of seas. There was also no "soft" spots on the deck or the side. The TTop wobbles quite a bit but no more than other bay boats I have been in.
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Re: 2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

PostPosted by Tom Marlowe » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:03 pm

Flex in the side wall of a boat is extremely common. Try the same thing on a Sea Hunt, Grady, Robalo, almost any brand and you'll find way more flex than on your Key West, but it's that way on those brands for a couple of reasons, one of them being no foam in the side walls where the Key West does have foam. So why the difference from one boat to another? The logical explanation is the foam in the side walls should taper off just in front of the console. Exactly where it tapers will vary from one boat to the next since the foaming process is not an exact science. It's done by hand and different hands. As a result some boats get enough, while others get more, but if the foam went all the way to the front there would be too much lift up front in a swamped boat. A cavity up front actually helps to raise the stern. Bottom line, the flex in the side wall is not in any way related to the banging or knocking noise you hear in rough water. That is almost always a vent line or battery cables with enough slack to bump up and down in the rough stuff. Not really a problem except that it makes you wonder what's falling apart, when in reality nothing is falling apart.
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Re: 2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

PostPosted by derelectrk » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:17 pm

Thanks Tom,
Just nervous I guess. Do you have performance data for this boat with an Evinrude 250HO or 300 G2? would love to see it. Also does Key West make the casting seat in the matching vinyl for this boat? Again, Thanks
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Re: 2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

PostPosted by Stonyloam » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:00 pm

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Re: 2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

PostPosted by Tom Marlowe » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:22 am

I did a test with the Evinrude 250 HO a few years back and the Evinrude engineer was with me on that one. We had some issues with the test instruments though and he couldn't get all the data needed to publish compete data such as fuel consumption and MPG, so it's not on the list that can be found on the link above. With two of us on board we were able to reach a top end speed of 60 mph which was what I considered OK, but not outstanding, based on what I'd seen with the 250 SHO. The huge disappointment to me was the extreme steering torque at high speed. We did have a jack plate and I could reduce the torque by lowering the engine, but that also lowered speed. The only way I could turn left at high speed was to back off the throttle or lower the engine. Otherwise there was so much torque the valves in the helm would open rather than turn the engine.

So we talked a bit about the gearcase they had on that engine at the time, and compared it to the Rude Ram I ran a good bit a decade earlier. Back in the earlier days of the HO Ficht engines they had a very nice gearcase arrangement with the high speed water pick up, pointed nose, and angled skeg that Yamaha simply copied for the SHO. It worked great to reduce steering torque just like it does for the SHO, but the one on the later HO Evinrude had a conventional gearcase with a slightly larger diameter. Why? The explanation, they had to beef up the gears to prevent failures that were occurring with the higher engine torque. Not steering torque; two different things. I saw some of those failures years ago so I know what he's talking about, but all of them I saw were on offshore boats where the prop can leave the water in rough water. That "chirping" as I call it creates tremendous load and unload shock on the internal components of the gearcase that no engine brand is immune to. Evinrude's answer at the time was this bigger and beefier gearcase I ran on the HO. The logic, as it was explained to me at the time, was that even though it was slower and did allow that steering torque that could not be overcome with the helm in our test, it didn't break. Well yeah, that's a good thing, but if I can't make it turn left because of excessive steering torque, that sucks, and it's unsafe to the n'th degree.

With the G2 engines the cambered or angled skeg is back, thank you very much. I haven't had another opportunity to test the big Evinrudes on the 230BR. We have not rigged a big number of them on the boats so far to make them available for me to personally run them, but it seems the Evinrude guys have done that with at least one of our dealers. The guys at St Augustine Marine are an avid Evinrude dealer and Brian there has been running a Key West BR, either the 210 or 230BR, for the last few years. Unless I'm wrong about them doing the testing, I can't imagine why that report isn't on the BRP site. Surely they got those instruments to work by now. I did test one of their 250 G2 engines not long ago on a 239FS. The speed we got was typical of any 250 which is what I've come to expect, but the MPG was the most impressive feature to me of that engine. At a slow cruise in the mid 20's I could maintain over 4 mpg consistently. I could max out at 4.5 even but that was hard to hold, but I could reproduce 4.4 dependably. That is very impressive MPG. I did see 4.2 on the 239FS with the Yamaha, but it was the F200 four cylinder some folks hate so much. I also saw 43 mph out of that package with me and two other guys from one of our dealerships. Those guys were from way up north and I suspect both of them ate a moose before visiting. Yes, they were huge.
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Re: 2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

PostPosted by MarshMarlowe » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:57 am

Tom Marlowe wrote:I did a test with the Evinrude 250 HO a few years back and the Evinrude engineer was with me on that one. We had some issues with the test instruments though and he couldn't get all the data needed to publish compete data such as fuel consumption and MPG, so it's not on the list that can be found on the link above. With two of us on board we were able to reach a top end speed of 60 mph which was what I considered OK, but not outstanding, based on what I'd seen with the 250 SHO. The huge disappointment to me was the extreme steering torque at high speed. We did have a jack plate and I could reduce the torque by lowering the engine, but that also lowered speed. The only way I could turn left at high speed was to back off the throttle or lower the engine. Otherwise there was so much torque the valves in the helm would open rather than turn the engine.

So we talked a bit about the gearcase they had on that engine at the time, and compared it to the Rude Ram I ran a good bit a decade earlier. Back in the earlier days of the HO Ficht engines they had a very nice gearcase arrangement with the high speed water pick up, pointed nose, and angled skeg that Yamaha simply copied for the SHO. It worked great to reduce steering torque just like it does for the SHO, but the one on the later HO Evinrude had a conventional gearcase with a slightly larger diameter. Why? The explanation, they had to beef up the gears to prevent failures that were occurring with the higher engine torque. Not steering torque; two different things. I saw some of those failures years ago so I know what he's talking about, but all of them I saw were on offshore boats where the prop can leave the water in rough water. That "chirping" as I call it creates tremendous load and unload shock on the internal components of the gearcase that no engine brand is immune to. Evinrude's answer at the time was this bigger and beefier gearcase I ran on the HO. The logic, as it was explained to me at the time, was that even though it was slower and did allow that steering torque that could not be overcome with the helm in our test, it didn't break. Well yeah, that's a good thing, but if I can't make it turn left because of excessive steering torque, that sucks, and it's unsafe to the n'th degree.

With the G2 engines the cambered or angled skeg is back, thank you very much. I haven't had another opportunity to test the big Evinrudes on the 230BR. We have not rigged a big number of them on the boats so far to make them available for me to personally run them, but it seems the Evinrude guys have done that with at least one of our dealers. The guys at St Augustine Marine are an avid Evinrude dealer and Brian there has been running a Key West BR, either the 210 or 230BR, for the last few years. Unless I'm wrong about them doing the testing, I can't imagine why that report isn't on the BRP site. Surely they got those instruments to work by now. I did test one of their 250 G2 engines not long ago on a 239FS. The speed we got was typical of any 250 which is what I've come to expect, but the MPG was the most impressive feature to me of that engine. At a slow cruise in the mid 20's I could maintain over 4 mpg consistently. I could max out at 4.5 even but that was hard to hold, but I could reproduce 4.4 dependably. That is very impressive MPG. I did see 4.2 on the 239FS with the Yamaha, but it was the F200 four cylinder some folks hate so much. I also saw 43 mph out of that package with me and two other guys from one of our dealerships. Those guys were from way up north and I suspect both of them ate a moose before visiting. Yes, they were huge.


Well that was a severely interesting read :thumbsup:
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Re: 2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

PostPosted by derelectrk » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:08 pm

Thanks a bunch Tom. I ordered my G2 Friday so I'll report on it as soon as I get some run time.
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Re: 2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

PostPosted by Tom Marlowe » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:23 am

derelectrk, your question about set up with the G2 got to me via email with no email address to respond to, so I'll respond here.

If I understand correctly you are installing a 25" shaft motor on a 230BR and using a 6" set back on the Atlas jack plate. With that set up I like to mount the plate all the way up on the transom. The Atlas has three possible mounting holes, and going all the way up gives you more range of up and down and gets the plate out of the water more on acceleration. Then mount the engine on the plate in the third hole up, leaving only one hole that would take it higher.

When it comes to props I am not familiar enough with Evinrude props to make a good recommendation other than I would expect to see around a 20 to 21" pitch. A few years back on the bass boats I was selling at the time I liked the Raker props on the big Evinrudes, but they may have something better now. I will send a note to my Evinrude guru and see what recommendations he might have and will let you know what he says.
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Re: 2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

PostPosted by derelectrk » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:18 pm

Thanks Tom, I'll let you know how it runs once I get some run time.
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Re: 2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

PostPosted by Tom Marlowe » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:26 pm

The response from our Evinrude engineer was as follows.

25" engine 250HO G2 on 230 Bay Reef with 6" hydraulic jack plate. Boat runs 60 mph with 22" BRP RX4 propeller P/N 177324

Apparently he's tested one like that. Interesting that they went with a four blade prop. The nice thing about the new gearcase design on the G2 is it pretty much kills prop torque so the steering is very nice.

Yeah, I'd love to see how it runs. Also curious about the change from Yamaha SHO 250 to the Evinrude, and of course a commentary regarding the perceived differences on your boat.
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Re: 2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

PostPosted by derelectrk » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:03 pm

Tom,
Sorry for the late response but, I just got the repower done a couple weeks ago and have 8 1/2 hrs on the new G2. Its a 2017 Etec G2 250 HO - 25" shaft with 20" pitch RX4 prop, 6" Atlas hyd jack plate. The jack plate was mounted at its highest setting on the transom and the motor was mounted in the 2nd highest setting. I get 62 mph @ 5980 rpm with the boat loaded with gear, 50 gal fuel power pole, trolling motor and 3 people. (No T top) With the comparable load I got 56 - 57 mph @ 6000 rpm with the Yamaha. The Etech gets on plane much faster and has better mid range and throttle response. Hadn't had enough time with it to check fuel economy. The Etech doesn't come from the factory with a way of monitoring SOG and my GPS isn't compatible with the ICON gauge so I don't get MPG readings. Also don't get gallons used reading on the ICON gauge. The Yamaha seemed to labor in rough seas but I suppose it could be contributed to the 20" shaft and the 20" setback. I'm not mashing on Yamaha though. I was a good reliable motor and very quiet. I just think it's better suited on a bass boat. As soon as I get economy data I'll forward it to you.
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Re: 2016 key west 230BR hull stiffness????

PostPosted by derelectrk » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:05 pm

Also, no steering torque issues what so ever.
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